4380. CONCERNING THE HELLS; CONCERNING PHANTASIES. I have seen and been instructed as to the state of the hells in general. Phantasies are what rule there, and they appear real to the life, because those who are there are in phantasies, and have no other life than that of phantasies; if they had not that, they would have none at all, wherefore their phantasies are to them as living realities, perceived with all fullness of sense, as I have learned by multiplied experience, and from having often times conversed with spirits on the subject. They said they knew they were phantasies, to which it was replied that such was the fact, but still they perceived them with perfect sensation, and even with pain and torture; and although they themselves are mere phantasies, yet they cannot otherwise live, as the sum total of their existence is phantasy, inasmuch as they are not in goodness and the truth of faith; for good spirits and angels never perceive such things, inasmuch as they are in truth.