4294. CONCERNING SCIENTIFICS AND DOCTRINALS, THAT THEY ARE OF NO ACCOUNT EXCEPT TO MAKE A MAN CONFORMABLE TO THEM. I was led through the mansions of the heaven of spirits, from whence I perceived those that were in the interior heaven, and with whom also I conversed. It was at the right where there is a state of rest - such a state of rest as cannot be described. I spoke with them in their mansions, and there appeared spirits above me, some in a kind of pendant lucidity, where are the habitations of the men of the Most Ancient Church. I spoke with spirits and angels, but as often as I adduced anything doctrinal or scientific they were unwilling to admit it, saying there was no need of such things - that they disturbed their quiet - inasmuch as they were in them, and from being in them, they know [everything] of the kind. From this and other things I learned that they did not admit of doctrinals except on account of use, and that doctrinals were nothing else than the means of man's becoming such as doctrinals alone would make him, that is, means subservient to man's use on the earth, and to the use of souls recently arrived from the world. They clearly perceived whether I was disposed to place a glory in things of this kind, and their perception on this score was indescribably accurate. It was also given me to know the quality of the ideas of angelic spirits, which are universal, as are those of spirits in general, but it cannot be described. - 1749, June 3.