5779. 'And Joseph said to them' means their perception at this point. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' as perception. The reason why it means their perception is that Joseph, the one who is the speaker, represents the internal, and it is from the internal, that is, from the Lord by way of the internal, that all perception comes. No perception comes from anywhere else, not even sensation. The appearance is that sensation as well as discernment come about as a result of influx from the external; but this is a mistaken idea. For it is the internal that experiences sensation, through the external. The senses located in the body are no more than organs or instruments to serve the internal man, enabling it to receive sensory impressions of things in the world. The internal therefore flows into the external in order to receive sensory impressions, to the end that it may thereby discern things and become more perfect. But the external cannot flow into the internal.