10755. Afterwards the preacher was conducted to a place further on, though against his will since he was still thinking of the woman in whom he had taken very great delight, as was evident from the fact some of the shadow he had cast in the former place was still apparent there. He came then to those who were naked. These were seen walking together two and two. Each pair consisted of husband and wife, wearing a garment around their hips and some kind of covering around the head. While the preacher was with them he was brought into that state which had been his in the world when he wished to preach. He told them then that he wished to preach before them on the theme 'the Lord crucified'. But they said that they had no wish to listen to anything like that because they did not know what was meant by it, but that they did know that the Lord lives. Then he declared that he wished to preach on the theme 'the Lord who lives'. But they declined to listen to this too, saying that they detected nothing heavenly in his speech, only that which was earthly, because he was governed largely by self-interest and by concern for his own reputation and position. They explained that they could hear from the very sound of his voice whether his words came from the heart or only from the lips; and that being such as he was he could teach them nothing. At this he became silent. In the world he had been, when he lived there, most passionate, so much so that he had had the power to move his audience to reverence. But the passion which he exhibited had been acquired artificially by him and so had a selfish and worldly origin, not a heavenly one.