5121. And Joseph said unto him, This is the interpretation of it. That this signifies revelation from perception from the celestial in the natural as to what it had in itself, is evident from the signification of "saying" in the historic parts of the Word, as being perception (n. 1791, 1815, 1819, 1822, 1898, 1919, 2080, 2619, 2862, 3395, 3509), here revelation from perception, because said of a dream and its interpretation - all revelation being either from speech with angels through whom the Lord speaks, or from perception (of which hereafter); and from the representation of Joseph, as being the celestial in the natural (of which above, n. 5086, 5087, 5106); and from the signification of "interpretation," as being what it had in itself (of which also above, n. 5093, 5105, 5107). From this it is plain that by "Joseph said unto him, This is the interpretation of it" is signified revelation from perception from the celestial in the natural as to what it had in itself, also dealt with above, in 5093, 5105, 5107. From this it is evident that 'Joseph said to him, This is the interpretation of it' means revelation resulting from the perception received by the celestial within the natural as to what it held within it.

[2] In regard to revelations being either from perception, or from speech with angels through whom the Lord speaks, it is to be known that they who are in good and thence in truth, and especially they who are in the good of love to the Lord, have revelation from perception; whereas they who are not in good and thence in truth, can indeed have revelations, yet not from perception, but through a living voice heard within them, and thus through angels from the Lord. This revelation is external, but the former is internal. The angels, especially the celestial, have revelation from perception, as also had the men of the Most Ancient Church, and some too of the Ancient Church, but scarcely anyone at this day; whereas very many, even those who have not been in good, have had revelations from speech without perception, and also by means of visions or dreams.

[3] Such were most of the revelations of the prophets in the Jewish Church; they heard a voice, they saw a vision, and they dreamed a dream; but as they had no perception, these were merely verbal or visual revelations without any perception of what they signified. For genuine perception comes through heaven from the Lord, and affects the intellect spiritually, and leads it perceptibly to think as the thing really is, together with internal assent, the source of which it knows not. It supposes that it is in itself, and that it flows from the connection of things; whereas it is a dictate through heaven from the Lord, flowing into the interiors of the thought, about such things as are above the natural and sensuous, that is, about such things as are of the spiritual world or of heaven. From what has now been said it may be seen what revelation from perception is. But the revelation from perception which the Lord had (who is here represented by Joseph, and which revelation is here treated of in the internal sense), was from the Divine in Himself, thus was from Himself.