4630. A certain person was present unseen over my head. I knew he was there by the stench, which was like that of rotten teeth, and I afterwards noticed a smell like that from burning horn or bone. Then there came a great crowd of such persons that rose up like a cloud from below not far from the back, and as these also were unseen, I conjectured that they were subtle, and yet evil; but I was told that these were invisible where there is a spiritual sphere, but visible where there is a natural sphere. For those who are so natural as not to think at all about spiritual things, nor to believe in the existence of hell or of heaven, and yet are subtle in their transactions, are such as these, and are called "the invisible natural," being sometimes made manifest to others by their stench, as described above.