10786. They said further that these persons also confuse them by telling them that they ought to have faith, and to believe all that they say; and that they reply to them that they do not know what faith is, or what it is to believe, seeing that they perceive within themselves that the thing is so. For they were of the Lord's celestial kingdom, where all know from interior perception the truths which with us are called truths of faith, because they are in enlightenment from the Lord, differently from those who are in the Lord's spiritual kingdom. That they were of this nature it was also given to see from the flame-like source of their ideas. When there is discourse about truths, those who are of the Lord's celestial kingdom say no more than Yea, yea, or Nay, nay; and they never reason about them as to whether they are so or are not so. These are they of whom the Lord says, "Let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay; that which is more than these is from evil." From this it is that these spirits said that they do not know what it is to have faith, or to believe. They consider this to be like someone telling his companion, who sees houses or trees with his own eyes, that he ought to have faith or believe that they are houses and trees, while he clearly sees that such is the fact. Such are they who belong to the Lord's celestial kingdom, and such were these angelic spirits. We told them that there are few on our earth who have interior perception, for the reason that in their youth they learn truths and do not practice them. For man has two faculties, which are called the understanding and the will; and as those who do not admit truths further than into the memory and thus a little into the understanding, but not into the life, that is, into the will, cannot be in any enlightenment or in interior sight from the Lord, they say that things must be believed, or that people must have faith. And they also reason about these things as to whether they are true or not; nay, they do not wish them to be perceived by any interior sight or understanding. They speak in this way because with them truths are devoid of light from heaven, and to those who see without light from heaven, falsities can appear as truths, and truths as falsities. From this a blindness so great has taken possession of many there, that although a man does not practice truths, that is, live according to them, they nevertheless say that he can be saved by faith alone.