1321. The subjects of their reasonings were principally three which followed in succession. The first was whether it is to be understood according to the letter that the apostles were to sit upon twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel [Matthew xix 28]. This was maintained by many who thence seize upon such a meaning in that confusion, and at the same time also from the fear that heaven would fall, as they say, being in some anxiety lest [the apostles] should be cast down from their judgment seats. Many of the apostles, who were the subjects of those who thence seize and defend such a meaning, were also there; some were not. For when they return into the state of their bodily life, which happens when they are sent back from the heaven of angels into the heaven of spirits, they become such that they defend these literal ideas, for in the life of the body they had believed no otherwise than that they would judge the twelve tribes of Israel; and because that is altogether opposed to the interior sense of these words they become very indignant, and then demand that they should be judges. They were also aroused by very many spirits who love such tumults, and who desire to arouse the apostles against the Church and the interior sense, and especially against the more interior sense.