5388. There was once present with and talking to me a certain spirit who during his lifetime had had no faith at all and had not believed in any life after death. He had also been one of the quite hard-working. He had been able to captivate people's minds by speaking favourably to them and flattering them. For this reason it was not immediately evident from his conversation what he was really like. Also, he could speak fluently, like a running river, even as a good spirit can. Yet from this it was soon realized that he did not like to speak about matters of faith and charity, for being unable in his thinking to follow talk about these he was hesitant. Then I noticed from the particular things he said that he employed flattery that was intended to deceive; for the use of flattery is varied, depending on what its end in view may be. If the end in view, when someone resorts to flattery, is friendship, or the desire for social connections, or something similar, and also if material gain is allowable, then he is not behaving too badly. But if his end in view is to extract secrets from another person and in so doing to compel him to engage in wicked practices, in general if the end in view is to cause harm, he is behaving badly. And that was the kind of end that spirit had in view. He too was opposed to those in the province of the kidneys and ureters, and he too said he liked the stench of urine more than all other odours. He also inflicted a feeling of cramp or a painful tightness in the pit of my stomach.