5308. 'And Pharaoh said to 'Joseph' means a perception Present in the natural but received from the celestial of the spiritual. This is clear from the meaning of 'saying' in the historical narratives of the Word as perception, dealt with just above in 5306; from the representation of 'Pharaoh' as the natural, and from the representation of 'Joseph' as the celestial of the spiritual, both of which have often been dealt with already.