1268. While protected I was guided towards that mist-covered rock. (Being guided towards such spirits does not involve movement from one place to another. It is achieved by means of intervening communities of spirits and angels, the individual staying where he is. Nevertheless it does seem to him like a downward journey.) When I drew near that rock I met with a coldness which gripped me in the lower part of the back. From where I was I spoke to them about their persuasions and asked them what they had believed concerning the Lord during their lifetime. They replied that they had thought much on the subject of God, but had persuaded themselves that no god existed and that human beings were gods, and so they themselves were gods. They had also confirmed themselves in these ideas from dreams. Their delusions against the Lord's existence will be discussed below.