6201. The thought appeared in this way among the spirits when I was a little withdrawn from the things of sense. But when the thought was in the things of sense, no such undulating sphere appeared; but it was all material, and not unlike external sight. In this case the man is said to think in the sensuous. But when he thinks interiorly, he is said to be withdrawn from the things of sense. That man can be withdrawn from things of sense was known to the ancients, and therefore also some of them have written about this state. They who think in things of sense are called sensuous, and the like spirits are adjoined to them. Such spirits scarcely apprehend more things with a man than those which come down to his sensation; for they are more gross than all other spirits. It has been observed that when a man is in what is sensuous, and is not elevated therefrom, he thinks of nothing else than what is of the body and of the world, and is not then desirous to know anything about what belongs to eternal life, and is even averse to hearing of that life. [2] That I might know that this is the case, I have sometimes been let down into what is sensuous, and then such things instantly presented themselves, and then also the spirits who were in that grosser sphere poured in base and scandalous things; but as soon as I was withdrawn from what is sensuous, such things were dissipated. In sensuous life are many who indulge in the pleasures of the body, and also those who have altogether rejected thought beyond what they see and hear, and especially those who have rejected thought about eternal life. Wherefore such persons make light of all such things; and when they hear of them, they loathe them. Spirits of this kind abound in the other life at the present day, for troops of them come from the world; and the influx from them prompts man to indulge his natural inclination, and to live for himself and the world, but not for others except insofar as they favor him and his pleasures. In order for a man to be uplifted from these spirits, he must think about eternal life.