498. (17) Nevertheless, they still possess human rationality like others. The natural, sensual and carnal person is just as rational in regard to his intellect as the spiritual person. I have had this demonstrated to me from experiences with satanic spirits and devils who have been allowed to rise up from hell and converse with angelic spirits in the world of spirits, as described here and there in the narrative accounts. Yet because the love of the will forms the person, and this draws the intellect into harmony with it, therefore such people are rational only in a state detached from the love of the will; but when they return again into that love, they rave on worse than wild beasts. Still, without the ability to elevate his intellect above the love of his will, a person would not be human but an animal, since an animal does not possess that ability. Consequently neither could he make choices and by choice do that which is good and useful, and thus he could not be reformed and led to heaven and live to eternity. Even though they are merely natural, sensual and carnal, therefore, so it is that purposeful and deliberate adulterers still possess the gift of understanding or rationality like others. However, when they are caught up in the lust of adultery and in that state think and speak in regard to it, they lose that rationality. The reason is that the flesh then prevails over the spirit and not the spirit over the flesh. Nevertheless, it should be known that such people after death become stupid. Not that the ability to think wisely is taken from them, but that they do not want to think wisely, since wisdom is not to their liking.