299. [276] I heard a conversation with presbyters in the west, which was effected by representatives. On one side the devil with hell was represented, on the other side the Lord with heaven, and then it was said, (1) that the devil or hell dwells in the evils with man, and that the Lord with heaven is in the goods with him. (2) Then that the Lord through heaven continually drives away the devil with hell. (3) But the man who excuses his evils, and who lives in them, retains with himself the devil with hell, nor does he permit him to go away, although the Lord drives him away. (4) Also the devil then speaking with him, says what need is there to know evils, so as to combat against them, when God does that? and so he confirms man, therefore he is retained and thus they live together as friends; besides many similar things. Also the devil by that faith confirms them, saying what need is there of other knowledges, than those which belong to that faith? they are of no help; what need is there to know evils, because man from himself cannot combat against them? What need is there of combats, because man of himself can do nothing? (5) When nevertheless everything of life, everything of reason, and everything of freedom man has from the Lord, and He wills that man should act as of himself, and without man's cooperation as of himself, the evil remains, and the devil with evil, etc.